Finished My 243 Build

[hoosierdaddy]

I went with the SPS with a 22" barrel it cost me $540.00 bare , I went with it so I can build it the way I wanted to with out starting out at a grand and changing things to my likings , I actually was gonna start out buying it piece by piece but I waited to long and time started being a factor......I have worked on the bolt but I still may have it sent out later on and have some stuff done to it or a may buy a custom fluted bolt i'm not sure witch route i'm gonna go.........I really like the feel of this gun

[jrbhunter]

Nov 13, 2014 12:52:45 GMT -5 dawgdad said:

FWIW - the Hornady 58 V-max in a .243 running at 3700-3800 fps has not failed to perform for me on about 30 coyotes. 95% plus had no exit wound and 99% were Bang Flop DRT. That said I did not have many marginal shot placements. ;

I know that sounds kind of arrogant but the bullet always went where I pointed it.

No doubt, they go where we point them. 30 coyotes without a miss, much less a misplaced bullet is not a realm I operate in. Pretty safe to say I've never had a streak like that with my style of hunting and shooting ability.

I take more liberty with timing and placement of shots than a lot of guys, I may shoot runners at 20 and barkers at 400 on the same stand. I don't pretend to expect double-lungs on every coyote I shoot so I'm critical of how my bullets perform on marginal shot placement.

The harder you push the envelop, the more likely you'll get burnt by the unexpected. I missed a couple chipshots and had to put a couple down with a follow up shot, but killed 20 coyotes from Fri-Fri last week. I've got a little work to do on my rig and some practice is in order but most of it boils down to decision making. Could've easily been 25.

[hoosierdaddy]

Here ya go Tac , so far so good

[tak]

Good deal, that is a nice setup gun and deadly too.

[hoosierdaddy]

I didn't carry the big "clip" today just the 4 round mag and one in the pipe

[hoosierdaddy]

186 yards , bang flop and drop

[dawgdad]

Nov 15, 2014 23:08:28 GMT -5 jrbhunter said:

Nov 13, 2014 12:52:45 GMT -5 dawgdad said:

FWIW - the Hornady 58 V-max in a .243 running at 3700-3800 fps has not failed to perform for me on about 30 coyotes. 95% plus had no exit wound and 99% were Bang Flop DRT. That said I did not have many marginal shot placements. ;

I know that sounds kind of arrogant but the bullet always went where I pointed it.

No doubt, they go where we point them. 30 coyotes without a miss, much less a misplaced bullet is not a realm I operate in. Pretty safe to say I've never had a streak like that with my style of hunting and shooting ability.

I take more liberty with timing and placement of shots than a lot of guys, I may shoot runners at 20 and barkers at 400 on the same stand. I don't pretend to expect double-lungs on every coyote I shoot so I'm critical of how my bullets perform on marginal shot placement.

The harder you push the envelop, the more likely you'll get burnt by the unexpected. I missed a couple chipshots and had to put a couple down with a follow up shot, but killed 20 coyotes from Fri-Fri last week. I've got a little work to do on my rig and some practice is in order but most of it boils down to decision making. Could've easily been 25.

I would have more misses and misplaced shots if I had more shots. I only get 5-6 chances a year with the ground I have so I have to make them count. I cannot afford to be educating a pack of coyotes by thundering up an area I may need to get back into later. It forces me to get them in under 200 yards and stopped. It is good to know if I can get that - I have fur on the ground.

The one I killed in IPC last year was at about 15 yards with the 58 V-max - no exit wound.

[jrbhunter]

I have absolutely no first hand experience with that partucular bullet but I watched some guys in Texas shooting it on gray fox with.very rare exits. 30-200 yards. Blew my mind. Critters are rather dainty down there so it was lethal medicine.

In my personal experiences, those fast 35-60gr ballistic tips that give you that rapid expansion (which is awesome at times) are prone to splashing like hell off a coyotes neck, brisket or high shoulder. Volley ball sized rips with put-down shots required. I'm not saying its a deal breaker, if it shoots good and your confident with it, then its an obvious choice.

I judge a bullet on paper, then on meat. I don't trust either test without the other. Up in the 75-90 grain realm, I love ballistic tips. More than adquate for coyotes. I own several hundred rounds of factory polymer tip stuff and hundreds of bullets for the 243, 25wssm, 270, 7mm & 300. Down in the 204-223-250 range I keep partial boxes of polymers around for group testing or blowing up prairie dogs.

I don't like shooting varmint loads (fast/explosive) at coyotes in the Midwest, but with patience and limited exposure to the impacts that make them splash they'll do just fine. I'm not that guy.

[dawgdad]

I saw that in the .223 with 45-50 grain ballistic tips splashing or just spanking the coyote with no penetration. 55-62 in the .223 was better. My nephew shot on with a 77 grain Match hollow point... left a softball sized hole on exit... As stated , in my limited experience with the .243 Hornady 58 V-max at 3700-3800 fps, that has never failed to perform. I shot a few a couple of years ago with a 75 Remington accutip with the same results.

I am too lazy to pull out the calculator now but I bet if you run the energy calculation based on mass x velocity there is a critical point where bullet performance is optimized. It is my experience that you can run thin jacket bullet too fast. Had some 75 BTHPs go poof about 80 yards out trying to get them to 3000 fps. you can over spin the construction of the bullet.

[jrbhunter]

Just got off the phone with a good friend that really knows his coyotes, but he's still hung up on shooting a .223 He spends a lot of time hunting, target practicing and reloading, I don't know what else to say other than he should know better. He's shot 6 coyotes this year and laid hands on 3. Old habits die hard, I guess. He may go kill 5 straight now, but over time he'll eventually see the light. I don't argue, just nod my head and share my experiences.

Nov 18, 2014 16:10:02 GMT -5 dawgdad said:

I bet if you run the energy calculation based on mass x velocity there is a critical point where bullet performance is optimized..

I bet you're right. There's a fine line in there somewhere. The way I look at it, the 22-250 with 45gr hollow points are the cheapest and most readily available coyote hammers I've found. There are better rounds, but when you start factoring in the bobcat, reds & grays into the equation I really like these little 45 grain pills. Since so many of these 22-250 rifles are coming 1:12-1:14, you don't get same the same performance out of 55-65gr bullets. I even have some old 70gr HP's laying around but they group 1.8" @ 100.

I have one 50gr HP Flat Base that's shooting well, (0.69) I plan to feed it through one rifle and see how it hits coyotes. I'm not sure if it'll be noticeably different, but I like the idea. Carried them on two stands yesterday but never got to bust a primer. May try to bust a cat Saturday with one.

[jrbhunter]

PS: For the sake of discussion, I've ignored a rather large tangent here on the size of coyotes.

Western coyotes are more petite so I believe the energy required to tip one is lower. The NPHA as directly weighed, or assisted in the processes of weighing, about 750 western coyotes. I don't know how many we've weighed East of the Mississippi River, probably a few hundred. There is a BIG difference in the subspecies from here to there.

When you're flirting with this "thin line" we discussed here, the balance of energy will teeter differently as the mass of your target changes. I believe the 17, 204 & 223 have been GREATLY propped up by the high densities of small-stature coyotes and experienced/successful coyote hunters in the West. I don't recall losing a western coyote to any cartridge I hit them with.

[ta17rem]

I don't use a 243 but some of my buddies do on coyotes, lots of running shots are taken and the Hornady V-max's seem to work out the best over the ballistic tips, still get some runners from time to time and a bad hit is just that and bad hit..
JRB is onto something as far as size of the coyotes with S-E US have smaller bodied coyotes.. Up here we don't see many over 40 pounds with 42-43 about max.. I use mainly 17 cal.s and don't have any issue with it as far as putting a big coyote down. (speed kills).. Match the right bullet and vel. to the cartridge you plan to use. Running too heavy of a bullet to slow it behaves more like a FMJ and just stops inside or pencil's all the way through if you miss bone. Too light or explosive and you have surface splashes unless you run them at a slower speed but may get the same results as using a FMJ...
The 58 gr. or even a 68 gr. V-max should put a lot of fur down and keep it salvageable..

[hoosierdaddy]

totally 100% the Coyotes are thicker and beefier here in these parts than they are out west , all I know is I was fed up with my AR I built in 223 , I put a lot of time and effort into the complete build I built it from scratch piece by piece as strictly a coyote killer and I have killed with it don't get me wrong but I lost a lot too , and some in the IPC we couldn't find after tracking blood for two miles up and down the steep ridges in the snow , Dawgdad will vouch for that , I put some good shots on 4 of them early this year and lost all but one I can assure you there dead but I couldn't find them at the time after the tail spins and ran into the standing corn , I was gonna go with the R-25 and still may but this 243 with the 58 grain V-Max had the trigger pulled twice this weekend and it put fur down both times instantly , hers the second rascal

[ta17rem]

The 223 issue is the same problem the group I hunt with encountered. Most shots taken on running pumped up coyotes at 30 yds. to 300 yd.s.. One member still uses his Les beare (spelling) AR due eye problems (part of getting old). He still hits them but usually requires a follow up shot..(another hole in the hide).. Another member went to a 204 and ended up with splashes due to the factory ammo he was using. Other than that the 204 upped his game as he was no longer hitting them in the azz like he did very often with his 223..LOL Some of the other guys myself included carried AR's for a very short time and found them or the cartridge to be lacking and all have sold or traded them off and gone back to a good reliable bolt gun. They opted for the savages in 243 and me being a hard head went back to the 17 cal. center fire with no complaints cept from the group as I don't let to many get past me for them to get a crack at. I feel your pain when it comes to tracking wounded coyotes one hair at a time, which can go on for days if conditions are poor or not enough help..

[hoosierdaddy]

Here's my philosophy on the situation , my average shot on a coyote in my parts is 300 yards , its not stretching the barrel on the AR 223 by any means it will get it there , we are lacking knock down power , you cant simply get enough powder in the case , for one max loads on certain rounds is 24 grains of powder with a 55 grain bullet now the 243 with a 58 grain bullet shooting the same powder is 44 grains the 58 grain 243 has the same power at 300 plus yards where the 223 has at 100 exactly.......its a no brainer , the 223 at 400 is running 2457 fps with 736 ft lbs of energy and the 243 I running 2951 fps and 1122 ft lbs ......its pure power and not blowing them apart ......I see it and believe it